Climbing: Are there more specific types of climbs that do that to you?

Ingalls: No, not so many. After that time in Glenwood Springs, I just didn’t like it. That dread. I didn’t think it was interesting or beautiful or anything. You know, Layton liked it because he had read a lot about climbing the Dolomites, you know, and he thought it resembled a lot the Dolomite mines. But I would say that the Titan inspired the most dread, the feeling of something very serious. But at the same time, they were so extraordinary that it was very attractive. And so, it was like…like meeting some terrible animal, like a dragon or something, you want to know more about it, you want to see more, but you’re scared.

I remember once when I was in the India, they said there was a leopard that came through near there [the town I was in] and I had gone up all by myself and I thought ‘gee I really want to see the leopard’, but then I thought ‘oh g-d, suppose I really do see the leopard?’ I didn’t see the leopard though. But if they want to get on your case, there’s nothing you can do about it. Nothing really. So I really wanted to see that leopard but at the same time I was really worried about seeing that leopard.

Climbing: It really seems that the amount of adventure seeking you had, is unparalleled, that when you saw this tower, and how you said it was a mixture of anxiety and excitement, well today, I really don’t see that in a lot of climbers.

Ingalls: Well, to me, I saw climbing as adventure and exploration. I never thought of it as something to put somebody else down with. Adventure and exploration. Yeah there was very much an adventure, it was very exciting. And boy, to get off of work on a Friday afternoon, drive until midnight to get to Moab, then climb all day Saturday and partly the next day and come back Sunday night to get up and go early to work the next day. It was really very exciting you see.

[ONE HOUR MARK]

Climbing: So did you live in Colorado at the time? And then just went out on the weekends to climb?

Ingalls: Mm-hmm.

Climbing: Did you climb during the week?

Ingalls: Didn’t have time.

[eating]

Climbing: So most of the rest of these questions are generalized, so if you want to keep going we can, or we can stop for the day.

Ingalls: We’re here today, as long as you can hear over the noise.

Climbing: Sure, that works. So how long have you lived in Boulder?

Ingalls: Since 1959, except for four years.

[moved to a quieter spot in the cafe]

Ingalls: Have you had any published articles so far?

Climbing: Um, a couple. None really for Climbing yet. Most of my published work was for my university, the college magazine there. Pretty basic stuff. I’m really looking forward to doing a whole feature piece for Climbing magazine now. But I have to start online for them. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen them, but on climbing.com, there is what’s called the Hot Flashes, basically up to date climbing news hits. I’ve been able to do a couple of those so far, but I actually don’t do too much writing. I do a lot more editing. Which is good, because I’m a lot better at editing, but I want to work on my writing as a result. I’m really lucky to be able to do this Perspectives piece on you actually, because that is my foot in the door in this business.

Ingalls: Well, that’s good, that’s good then. OK

Climbing: So what was your climbing like, or your climbing experience prior to Castle Valley?

Ingalls: I had climbed Ship Rock and Independence Tower. Where I learned to climb was Maryland and West Virginia, did a lot of climbing over at Seneca Rock, remember I was telling you. That’s about as much I really did. Seneca Rock is full of rock called quartzite, about 20 feet wide and a couple hundred feet high. Really good climbing there.

Climbing: So what kind of climbing do you like best?

Ingalls: First ascents to a summit. I like climbing to difficult summits, that’s what I like.

Climbing: Have you ever done, like, big wall climbing?

Ingalls: I did some in the Black Canyon. That’s pretty big. Have you ever climbed in there?

Climbing: Nope.

Ingalls: That’s immense. Black Canyon, the whole thing.

Climbing: Do you remember the name of the climb you did there?

Ingalls: Shining Buttress. Have you seen the guidebook to the Black Canyon? It’s in there.

Climbing: Yeah, what do you think of the names? The names of the routes that everybody gives them now.

Ingalls: Uh, they’re clever. Overall, they’re clever. I think they’re pretty spirited over the whole. Some of them I don’t get, but the whole I think they’re spirited.

Climbing: Did you ever boulder? Instead of just rope climbing?

Ingalls: Oh yeah, I did that. I love bouldering. But to me, bouldering is just a way of learning skills, not a thing in itself. I can’t get excited about climbing boulders, just to be climbing boulders. But it’s a good way to refine your skills.

Climbing: Can you tell me how you see yourself fitting into the desert climbing history? Or climbing history in general?

Ingalls: Primarily, as a pioneer. I discovered a number of these climbs and I brought them to the attention of the climbing world and so, primarily as a pioneer of sorts. But my whole view of climbing was about adventure and exploration. Rather than competition, or collecting thousands of climbs.

Climbing: Do you think at that time, when you started climbing, especially in the desert, how do you think society saw you? Outside of the climbing world I mean.

Ingalls: They were impressed our boldness and drive, but they thought we were a little crazy. There was an article in Climibng magazine about seven or eight years ago about the Titan, have you ever seen that? There was a picture of it on the cover. And the guy that wrote it, said that when approaching the Titan, he said, it gives you an opportunity to think about the Titan pioneers “half brilliant and half quacked.” Haha, somebody said that and I think that sums it up pretty well. Half inspired and half crazy.

Climbing: Yeah, I would say that my father would agree with that. He’s always looked at climbing as supportive for physical aspects and whatnot, but he still looks at me like “what are they thinking? What are you thinking?”

Ingalls: Well, I made a reconnaissance trip in there, in Nov 1961. To look those things over. They were just appalling. There was a party of climbers at the Mountain Motel, there at the end of Arapahoe street. And all the local climbers were there and I showed these pictures of climbers there and the consensus was that they were crazy, that it wasn’t even climbing. And there was only a couple of climbers that thought it was stuff not to be ridiculed for. That’s just how much things have changed, now things all over are being climbed.