Matt: Similar genre — bold, runout, steep.

Jim: Oh, it’s going to be hard. I don’t think it is going to happen for a long time. And also Steve House and I were talking about White Horn — when you’re on Emperor Face you’re looking straight across it, this really beautiful, really big face on White Horn. I have never heard of anyone trying it either. I didn’t ask him. But as far as we know, and the bottom line is that there is a lot of rock left to climb.

Matt: Yeah.

Jim: There is stuff for young guns that want to go make their mark. There is stuff to do. White Horn is waiting.

Matt: White Horn is waiting. Why do you think it took so long for this route to be repeated?

Jim: I think you had to be a good climber to repeat it, and there was still enough stuff in the Rockies to climb. So, I think it was like if you are a good climber, and you are going to risk your life to try to do some thing, would you rather do a new route? Or would you rather do a second ascent? It had to go long enough that somebody said OK, I am willing to put that energy into the second ascent, or they thought they were doing a first ascent.

Matt: No one remembers the second-ascent guy.

Jim: Yeah exactly.

Matt: The third-ascent guy, forget it.

Jim: So, that is why I think it took so long. It doesn’t make a difference how many ascents. It is always going to be serious.

Matt: And where do you climbing mostly these days?

Jim: Mostly I sport climb around Boulder. Eldorado, Boulder Rock Club.

Matt: Eldo is known for its sport climbing…

Jim: It’s almost like sport climbs because…

Matt: You’ve got them so dialed by now.

Jim: Yeah when Roger and I go out, Roger racks the rack in the order he is going to put the gear in on the pitch.

Matt: He knows exactly.

Jim: He knows exactly — the Stopper, then the Alien, then the red Camalot.

Matt: 40 years on those routes.

Jim: You start getting them. Oh I better put a sling here because if I don’t, there is going to be rope drag.

Matt: It seems like you guys climb as hard as ever.

Jim: Pretty much, yeah. And Outer Space will always be great, you know, no matter what.

Matt: This is true. I totally agree.

Jim: I think actually it is interesting. I don’t think our climbing ability has really changed in 40 years. The equipment is better, there’s a lot better technique. We are kind of doing the same climbs.

Matt: That’s good. I mean there’s such good climbs… if it’s not broke, I guess why fix it.

Jim: I don’t know how long I’ll be able to climb the Naked Edge. Maybe, I don’t know, maybe longer.