Ever stay in tune with modern bouldering, the magazines or websites?
I don’t even have a computer. I have actually never been on the Internet. But, I hear stuff through the grapevine. John Sherman came by the house a few years back when he was working on his book Stone Crusade, and asked a few questions of me. I did some work to the inside of his van, and that was the last I heard of bouldering until now.
  
Did you guys ever get your buzz on during a session?
In the early years, we’d smoke a little bit and have a few beers. Partying was a big part of the scene. We used to get high up on Crown Rock on Flagstaff after a climbing session. But for the most part we would generally stay sober and focused when we were on the rock. We'd hang out a few hours after we took our shoes off, ya know — it was the 1970’s culture.
  
Will you ever shoe-up and go bouldering again?
The cerebral nerves in both my legs are dead. When I get up in the morning, I have a hard time getting up and down the stairs. Driving is kind of interesting when I can’t tell were the pedals are. I can’t feel my feet. I’ve had 70-some stitches put in my leg over the last year from three different cuts I didn’t even feel happen. They even stitched them up without Novocain. I can take an electric drill to my feet and there is nothing there! I often get phantom pains; I feel pain even though my sensory nerves are all dead. For me to get back on the rock would be a disaster. It would be difficult to handle for me mentally. My brain thinks I can shoe up, but my body knows I can’t.
  
Still keep in touch with John Gill?
He came by my house a few years back when he was in town for a math seminar, but we don’t keep in good-enough touch. 

Tell me about Hollow’s Way?
Rob Candelaria first ascent and a very underrated problem — the landing is a death fall in my opinion. Has that even been repeated? It was very still very dirty when I hung up my shoes, because I never believed in lichen removal or even re-doing the base of a problem — it destroys the natural beauty of an area. Ya know, that problem could have been done around 1970 though by a guy named Rick Thurman from Fort Collins. He told me he had done something called Junior Achievement, because he described it as a hard crack hidden in the woods.
  
Tell me about meeting John Gill?
I remember getting out of the car on my first trip down to Pueblo to boulder with the big boys. Bob Williams jumps out of the car and does a front lever on Gill’s rings set-up in front of his house. I remember that they said a really tall person couldn’t do one. I said we will see about that. I was determined to learn one. I had heard of the hard routes he was doing up in the Needles and stuff. 

I first met John on Flagstaff at the Smith Overhang area. I though it might be him, so I asked if he was John Gill, but he wouldn’t answer! I asked again, but still no answer. I don’t know if he was shy and didn’t want some young kid goggling over him or something like that. He was a big influence for me at the time; he became a major reason for my respect for the sport. I learned a lot about dynamic moves from him. When we first started climbing, dynamic moves were taboo. You never lunge for anything! It was against the rules! The caliber of the stuff he was doing in Colorado in the 1960s was amazing. Way ahead of the time. And John’s problems were the best — none of this sit-on-your-butt crap. You’d just look for the little white arrow at Sylvan Lake and you just knew it was gonna be a classic route.
  
Would you like to see a second ascent of the Big three?
It would be neat to see if they can be done. It would be interesting to see how hard these things are. Apparently pretty hard, in that nobody can repeat them. I guess it is kinda nice in one sense to have unrepeated problems in these times, and I’ve often wondered how my problems can have ratings if no one can repeat them? It would be neat to see the first repeat though. I used to love getting second ascents.
  
Which of the Big Three is the hardest?
Slapshot.

Do you have any words of wisdom for a young climber like myself?
Number one is always have fun. Don’t take climbing too seriously that you become a slave to it. I saw people so plugged into climbing that they couldn’t get their minds around anything else. By the time they got out of the car to climb, they were so worked up — so intense about climbing — that they couldn’t enjoy the experience. I think that holds a lot of people back. I think those people should re-learn how to just relax, and enjoy what they are doing. 

Ya know, we’d never talk about climbing, even on the way to the climbing areas! Intenseness can hold ability back — I truly believe that. Jim Michael and I used to always stop at lakes and throw rocks on the way to go bouldering. Why the hell would we do that? Well because we just enjoyed doing it, see? It would drive our friends crazy, and it really showed me the importance of enjoying other things. Go fishing! Be serious about what you do, but don't let it consume you. If you one day become disabled, like me, you’ll miss the fun with your friends much, much, more than a piece of rock, trust me. Take it slow. The routes I miss the most are the easy ones.